CAN GODADDY REALLY BE THE CHOICE OF DOMAINERS?
November 19th, 2008 Posted in General Domain News
This is just a quickie report, folks. I was transferring out Wigstore.org from GoDaddy to Moniker, and thought everything was fine. The renewal date was coming up, so I wanted to get the domain over to Moniker in case I wanted to sell it through Snapnames (a very easy process for domains registered at Moniker).
But then, BOOM! I get an email from GoDaddy stating, word for word:
“Express written objection to the transfer from the Transfer Contact. (e.g. – email, fax, paper document or other processes by which the Transfer Contact has expressly and voluntarily objected through opt-in means).”
The key words carrying the impact here are “EXPRESS WRITTEN OBJECTION TO THE TRANSFER…”
Really? Somebody provided “EXPRESS WRITTEN OBJECTION” to me transferring my domain away from GoDaddy? I called the GoDaddy support line and had very helpful fellow tell me, after receiving a forward of this Godaddy email to him, that what happened was there was a “change” to the whois information in the last 60 days. If that happens, it locks down the domain. I then asked him if any change to the whois information, whether it was an email address, phone number, address change, name change, or any type of change to the whois info on a domain at GoDaddy would lock the domain up for 60 days. His response “Yes, that would lock down the domain” or something to that effect. He seemed nonplussed about this ridiculous control GoDaddy exerted over a domain someone owned.
However, here’s the blatant lie — they said there was “Express written objection to the transfer…”
Was there? Nope. Nobody wrote anything to object to the transfer of wigstore.org. This is clearly false information being presented by Godaddy to a legal holder of a domain. It took a 15 minute phone call to verify the real issue… and that issue is that GoDaddy plays games still with slight changes to your whois information on any domain you have registered with them.
So for all you domainers who think you have a great deal going with GoDaddy, consider the ramifications of having a domain name registered with them. If they send you the email saying “ICANN requires we notify you to update your whois registration information. You can lose your domain if your whois information is false, etc. etc”, if you change your info, you can’t transfer the domain away from GoDaddy for 60 days. Guess when this “ICANN notice” arrives in your whois contact email box? That’s right, just about 45 days before your domain expires.
So you log into your GoDaddy account, make a change to your “FAX NUMBER”, and VOILA! You’ve just prevented your domain from being transferred away from GoDaddy. It can affect a sale, or even a transfer to a better priced registrar. It’s a brilliant way for GoDaddy to remain the largest domain registrar in the world, because their interpretations of the whois registration rules, or better said, their “manipulation” of these rules, prevents domain owners from transferring their domains away from GoDaddy.
It’s absolutely outrageous that GoDaddy can continue to do this. They sent me an email saying that the domain can be transferred on 11/22, which is ONE DAY BEFORE EXPIRATION. So now I have to baby this domain transfer for the next three days. Imagine if you had several thousand domains to administrate, which I do. I have never had this type of problem with Moniker, Fabulous, or even Enom/BR!
At one point, two years ago, I had over 200 domains at Godaddy, mostly obtained by buying short portfolios from noobie domainers who bought into the GoDaddy pricing and sweet looking CSM setup. Granted, GoDaddy has their WalMart impression down pat. But do you, as a domainer, want your domains to be handled like you bought them at Neiman Marcus, or Walmart?
It’s completely outrageous that a registrar that commands the top position of the registrar heap will try to sell you a bill of goods that is totally false to prevent you from moving your domain away from them.
All I can do is keep domainers up to date on this type of behavior, so you can be prepared for abuses in the future. It’s a slippery slope.
17 Responses to “CAN GODADDY REALLY BE THE CHOICE OF DOMAINERS?”
By Sammy Ashouri on Nov 19, 2008
This is exactly why I moved my domains away from GoDaddy.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Me too, Big Sammy. I don’t like any registrar, the “point man” in my strategic war squad lying to me. Your registrar is your first point of contact to your investment. Period. They play games with you, they’re the enemy.
By Jamie Parks on Nov 19, 2008
Lo and behold another GDscam brought to light in the domainersphere. These guys better look out. The more that experienced domain owners expose GoDaddy’s bad faith initiatives, the worse the climate gets. They may have invested millions to generate a TRUST brand, but it doesn’t mean a wildfire in the blogsphere can’t spread as fast as lightning.
Can’t wait to have all my names outta there clutches. Thanks for sharing your frustrations Steve. By the way same shit happened to me. All it take is one little edit. Total BS.
Patrick (DomainerPro.com) had it right. One of us needs to write a dummies book for GoDaddy, titled: “GoDaddy is For Dummies”
+++++XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi Jamie,
Good God, I’ve reported on this problem with Godaddy all year long on my blog. I even saw “results” in ICANN messages reporting that they would focus on this problem. What a lie. ICANN has done nothing.
In some cases, lack of “governmental control” is good, but how far can a registrar go to manipulate the system? We’re a small community, but when does any domainer or domain event ever show GoDaddy as being an active part of this community? What? A purchase of a tshirt logo, some other minor cash support of a domain conference, and that’s it from the biggest registrar in the world? When does GoDaddy actually be a part of the domain industry’s growth? Or where we all band together to find a set of ethical standards to follow so we can move into the public and B2B world? Where is GoDaddy in this effort? What, Bob Parsons preening like Larry Flynt and producing multi million dollar commercials for the Super Bowl? That’s our answer?
And the sad part is that GoDaddy operates just on the fringe of ethical domain registration processing, they are smart. They know just how far to push the limits, but I can predict that very quickly this type of unethical behavior will come back to bite them in the butt. What I really need from the other registrars I support, like Moniker and Fabulous, is to offer “beginners” an $9 a year registration fee. The problem is that my fav registrars only offer good prices to bulk domain buyers like domainers. Any good registrar, let’s say Rebel.com, should just pound out promotions for domains at $8 a domain, so all of us domainers can easily promote their sites to our clients and our contacts as the place to go for cheap domain registration. Otherwise, most people buy the heavy advertising done by GoDaddy and end up there. And once they go to GoDaddy, the upsell overwhelms them into thinking “gee, i should buy this and that, and get this and that, and boy, I better get this too”. Before they know it, a beginner has spent $100 on upsell extras when all they wanted to do was register a domain name.
I think GoDaddy can be knocked off the mountain. What I don’t understand is why the other registrars haven’t figured out how to do this, or haven’t even tried. I could come up with a marketing plan that could give GoDaddy a run on their “top position” within six months. Anyone with knowledge of the domain industry and registrar operation could easily put a wrench into the overblown gears of GoDaddy’s “marketing” operation.
However, it seems like many of the registrars that could do this are wrapped up in other concerns. This could be a marketing mistake on their part.
But Jamie, you really nailed it with your last comment about writing a book: “GoDaddy is For Dummies”
That’s not hard to prove, and that book would be easy to write.
Any domainer buying domains from GoDaddy is asking for some trouble down the line, if Godaddy keeps operating the way they do.
By Asean Central on Nov 19, 2008
I didn’t have this experience with GoDaddy when I tried transferring my domain(near expiration, only 2 months left).
I made an unlock as you can’t transfer a domain that’s locked and I was able to proceed with the transfer for about a week without hassle or emails objecting to the tranfer.
But I still suggest you post it in the Registrar Judge at http://www.registrarjudge.com. Reading from the review in that site, it seems that GoDaddy is hand-editing or perhaps they are constantly tweaking it’s rules as the experiences aren’t the same.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi Ismael,
The problem arises when you make a minor change to your whois registration info. So if you get an email from GoDaddy that warns you that your whois registration info must be exact or you could lose your domain, you may go and change a phone number, or an email address, or even a street address. Once you do that, GoDaddy prevents you from transferring that domain away. I can tell you from experience that GoDaddy doesn’t send you this ICANN notice more than 60 days away from the domain expiring. They send it to you about 30-45 days from expiration, so if you change ANYTHING on your whois registration info, they lock your domain down and you can’t transfer the domain to another registrar if you sell it to someone who wants to transfer it to another registrar. That means the buyer MUST use GoDaddy to receive the domain name. Remember, if you try to transfer a domain name, it can’t be transferred if the expiration period had passed. That means you also have to renew the domain name in order to keep it, and then transfer it to the new buyer later.
RegistrarJudge.com, my buddy Andrew’s new website, is a great site to make comments about registrars you use. I’ve already placed my vote about Godaddy on Registrarjudge.com.
By Albert on Nov 19, 2008
This happened recently? I thought GoDaddy removed this limitation not long ago after somebody filed a complained at ICANN and ICANN instructed GoDaddy to remove this lock. I read it at Namepros.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi Albert,
Good eye, bro! You’re right. It seemed that this was the case, as reported on several blogs and forums. However, ICANN’s reach is about as powerful as a limp noodle trying to stab an angry hedgehog. The “changes” that ICANN threatened to enforce never materialized.
Hey! I’ll be the first to report it if GoDaddy actually does implement proper and ethical treatment of your domains if you make a slight change to your whois registration. My advice to all GoDaddy customers? DO NOT MAKE A CHANGE TO YOUR WHOIS INFORMATION IF YOU PLAN ON SELLING THE DOMAIN OR TRANSFERRING IT TO ANOTHER REGISTRAR BEFORE THE DOMAIN EXPIRES, REGARDLESS OF THE SCARY ICANN MESSAGE YOU RECEIVE FROM GODADDY STATING YOU CAN “LOSE” THE DOMAIN IF YOU DON’T. GoDaddy uses this convenient ICANN “updating” warning to entice you to make even a small change in your whois registration. Once you do that, you’re done.
It’s funny. I’ve seen a lot of “positive” articles on registrarjudge.com about GoDaddy, but it seems those articles are written by noobs, who apparently aren’t administrating their domains for sales, or better pricing by transferring them elsewhere. Just wait until they have a domain name that somebody actually buys, and the owner casually updates some info before the sale. BAM. The buyer has to have an account with GoDaddy in order to get the domain, or the current owner must renew the domain and wait the 60 days before they can transfer the domain to the new owner.
This isn’t fiction, this is fact, and if it has happened to me more than five times, I know it has happened to other domainers. This is why MOST domainers, in the true sense of the word “DOMAINER”, don’t buy domains at GoDaddy. If they get one in a sale, a true domainer will transfer the domain away from GD as soon as they can, being very careful not to make any minor/major changes to their whois info beforehand.
By Rob Sequin on Nov 19, 2008
Stephen,
You have a good point. I hate this about GoDaddy (also applies to their Wild West Domains reseller too.)
However, I have been a WWD reseller since they started the program and have most of my domains there. The user interface is far better than any other I have ever used and I have been catching dropped domains for many years so I have had my share of experience with registrars. None have the user interface that GD or WWD have.
The pricing is low and the email customer service is terrible but their phone support is great.
So, every registrar has their flaws so we each need to settle in where we are comfortable.
Another feature that GD WWD have that no other registrars have is the ability to accept the transfer out which gives the domain a shove out the door thus cutting down transfer time from 3-5 days down to hours.
Hopefully GD will change that stupid lock down policy.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi Rob,
I did the reseller by WWD too, and believe it or not, that was the first of my troubles with GoDaddy. It was such confusion logging into two different accounts and following protocol… egads. I spent 2 months trying to get a few domains out of there because even though I controlled the reseller account, I couldn’t remember the old email address I had as the contact. Forget it, I’m not going into THAT nightmare again.
By Russ on Nov 19, 2008
For a couple years now, when making a change to contact info on a domain at GoDaddy they require you to check a box authorizing them to reject any outgoing transfers for 60 days.
The key is to keep that in mind when buying names reg’d there.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi Russ,
What’s ironic about that checkbox is that you don’t have the option to bypass it. You have to check it or they won’t make the changes to your whois info, thereby completely defeating their “ICANN compliance” notice email they send out. So you don’t have a choice, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
By David Rosenbaum on Nov 19, 2008
Clearly GoDaddy won the race to the bottom in terms of price, but in the process they have become one of the worst registrars in the world in terms of support. Domainers should use enom and Fabulous; two very well run/professional organizations.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi David,
You put it perfectly. Many domain buyers who use GoDaddy think that because they have 24/7 support, that they’re getting the right advice and treatment, when in reality, they can get stonewalled without even realizing it. GoDaddy’s support team tries hard, but they’re used to talking to noobie domainers, and the noobie domainers buy into anything they’re told by GD as being in their best interests (unless they get wise to it).
By James McNally (OpenSRS) on Nov 19, 2008
Stephen, we’ve been talking about this for a while to our resellers on our blog. In fact, in the past few months, we’ve posted a detailed guide to transferring domains away from GoDaddy (http://opensrs.com/blog/2008/09/helping-customerssuccessfully-manage-transfers-out-of-godaddy/) and just a few days ago, we featured our Compliance Manager talking about how he can help our Resellers break these kinds of registrar locks for their customers (http://opensrs.com/blog/2008/11/meet-paul-karkas-compliance-manager/).
We’re active in ICANN and believe strongly in domain name portability. Hopefully registrars like GoDaddy will be required to stop this practice soon, but in the meantime, getting the word out is important. Thanks for bringing it to light for your readers.
P.S. A couple of other links, for the intrepid:
1. Elliot Noss talks about questions your should ask before picking a registrar (http://opensrs.com/blog/2007/03/questions-to-ask-before-you-pick-your-domain-name-registrar/)
2. Tucows proposal for Standardized Inter-registrar Domain Transfers, from August 2001(!): http://www.byte.org/rc-transfers/
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi James,
Thanks for your very informative post for our readers.
By Jamie Parks on Nov 19, 2008
Stephen, you’ve really articulated the problem at it’s core, both with your post and further in the comments.
THIS IS A DANGEROUS POST FOR GoDaddy.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
I know all the GoDaddy happy campers have come to their defense, because it’s all they really know, and let’s admit it, GD has the prettiest websites with all the “cool” reasons to belong (A Danica Patrick endorsement is definitely a reason why I want to buy domains from GD).
If a happy GD user changes their whois info even slightly, unless they are selling their domains to buyers that also have a GoDaddy account, they’re going to hit that snag that’s really going to irk them into understanding how lame this lockdown policy is.
By Ross on Nov 19, 2008
Name.com and many other registars send these emails out as well. Its out of generosity to you that they send them out. Would you rather keep your domain or lose it because the company that wants it reports incorrect who.is info?
Plus on top of that if you just call GoDaddy they will initiate the transfer.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Well Ross ol buddy,
You think Name.com and other registrars send you your ICANN compliance notice “out of generosity”? Which registrar do you own?
They are REQUIRED to send out the notices at some point during the registration cycle of your domains.
You didn’t seem to read my article correctly. I’m not complaining about the ICANN compliance notice for keeping whois registration updated, I’m pointing out that if you DO update even a small portion of your whois info, GoDaddy forces your domain into LOCKDOWN mode for 60 days. The trickery is that GoDaddy sends out the ICANN notice within the 60 days before your domain expires, which forces you to RENEW the domain with GoDaddy instead of being able to transfer the domain away if you DO “comply” with the ICANN notice, and even change one number in your phone contact. You can’t transfer the domain away before the domain expires because Godaddy puts it in lockdown.
And a phone call to GoDaddy WON’T allow you to immediately transfer the domain away, because I called to complain and DEMANDED to see the “written” denial for the transfer that they indicated they received, and was told I had to wait until the 60 days was up, which turns out to be one day before domain’s expiration.
GoDaddy has been called out for this several times for almost a year, at least I think I was the first one to do it on this blogsite. They were “implied” in an ICANN notice to stop this practice, but it hasn’t “scared” them, or even “guilted” them into making the change.
By Shay on Nov 20, 2008
urgh!! surprise its another negative godaddy feature being highlighted! I’ve just about had enough with these scammers. I had the exact same problem with 10 domains – I couldn’t transfer them out and ended up having to pay a lot more at Godaddy than I would have done if I’d been able to move to namecheap.com when they had the 5.99 offer.
Anyway, to be honest I’m glad people are starting to take note and make a bit of noise about this issue (and hundreds of other issues in regards to GD).
I have nothing against any registrar, but when I feel that they are trying to get one over me and playing tricks to force me to pay more to them then I get a little annoyed.
Also, I’ve been buying/selling domains for over four years now – I’ve used 15-20 different registrars in total. I’ve never seen such dodgy unethical techniques at any other registrar. None come close.
I prefer to use DynaDot / NameCheap/ Moniker / Name / Fabulous etc. I’ve never had any problems with my 100′s of domains at each of those registrars. In fact I feel safe with those registrars, but I can’t say the same about Godaddy.
Nice article… we need to make more people aware of these GD issues.
By Frank Michlick (DomainCocoon) on Nov 20, 2008
Bu the way: The ICANN rule is called Whois Data Reminder Policy (WDRP) and as Stephen says registrars are required to send those notices once a year.
More information can be found here:
http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/wdrp.htm
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Hi Big Frank,
Yeah, that’s the correct term for it (and I can always depend on you to provide me with the true details and facts of anything regarding domain regulations!). They are required to be sent out by the registrars once a year, but GoDaddy sends them out around 45 days before your domains expire, so that if you DO comply and update your whois, GoDaddy locks the domain from being removed from their system before you have to renew it again. Thanks Frank, always a pleasure to hear from you.
By Robert on Nov 20, 2008
You guys are hilarious. I have a rep at GD and when ever I need to transfer a name, I call my rep and it’s done. Stop being like all the cows following the line and ask for a rep. Besides, I like the fact that no one can hi-jack my account and trasfer names without me knowing. My rep has to call me to approve any transfer. That saved me from losing a name when my email account was hacked. Careful with your passwords!
They’re(GD) not perfect but I’ve never had issues resolving things with my Rep. I also get “domainer” pricing without having to look for codes!
My 2 cents,
Robert
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
I’m glad you think we’re all “hilarious” and “cows”, Robert. You must have a very, very close relationship with your “Rep”. Will your GD Rep transfer out a domain you own when you changed the whois in the last 60 days, and checkmarked the box where GoDaddy requires you to agree the the DOMAIN CANNOT BE TRANSFERRED for 60 days after you submit your whois info change? Of course he won’t. He’s not going to depend on your voice over the phone to “verify” it’s really you. You checkmarked the box stating you didn’t want a transfer to happen after you made the whois change. And if your loving GD Rep finally does approve the transfer, just how long did it take and how many hoops did you jump through to get that to happen? Did you have to send GoDaddy a color copy fax of your driver’s license to prove who you were?
BTW, all the top domainer registrars have hijacking protection schemes that work as good or better than GoDaddy, without all the manipulation involved.
Your love of GoDaddy is based on your inexperience and your complete lack of understanding what we’re discussing here. However, I welcome noobie comments, normally. It helps my readers define the difference between experience and complete noobishness. (Okay, I claim the term “noobishness”, officially!)
By Domisfera on Nov 23, 2008
ICANN said it clearly:
A registrant change to Whois information is not a valid basis for denying a transfer request.
http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/advisory-03apr08.htm
(and even said “Registrars are prohibited from denying a domain name transfer request based on non-payment of fees for pending or future registration periods during the Auto-Renew Grace Period”)
If there are a lot of claims, could be GoDaddy lose his status as ICANN-accredited registrar?
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
That would be when pigs fly piper cubs and when hell freezes into an iceskating rink. Since when does anyone think ICANN polices their own policies? Great links, Dom… thanks!
By jeff schneider on Dec 4, 2008
ICANN is the root of a lot of problems. We have stated many times that ICANN refuses to protect the rights of current lease holders. This is why Go Daddy etc. etc., in fact most registrars, can pull this morally bankrupt practice.
This is a blatant neglect of fiduciary rights of all current lease holders. The truth of the matter is registrars will sell you a lease ,but they accept no fiduciary responsibility that you will keep the lease till expiration. This is why in all the hyjacking of leases by Kentucky-and contless others ICANN has been completely SILENT, as if lease holders have no rights. Is this a problem? As Sarah Palin says ” You BETCHA “
By anthony on Apr 29, 2010
It’s really devastating to know that the one you relied upon to give solution would in the end become part of the problem. ICANN has to do something. It has to move. As i see it, GoDaddy reviews are pretty divided. Future clients, please take this thing seriously.
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Your problem sounds like it can be recognized by a lot of domainers. Can you elaborate further on it here?
By michael on Sep 12, 2010
It is really so difficult to transfer the domain away from Godaddy. Why?
XXXXXX Stephen Douglas Responds:
Cuz Godaddy is the biggest for that reason – hard to transfer any domains away from them!